Cheerio, Ergo Proxy (eps 22 & 23)

Ergo Proxy has been riddled with problems from the onset. Its story has never been made immediately clear; its characterisation has been withdrawn and difficult to empathise with; its production values have been nothing if inconsistent. In many ways, I wonder if this is how people felt after they watched Evangelion for the very first time, free from the speculation and analysis that built up in the ensuing aftermath.

Though, to be clear, I don't think Ergo Proxy and Evangelion have much in common. They have passing likenesses, the love for needless pretension probably being the most obvious, but they're definitely worlds apart in many more important ways. For all its flaws in plot, Evangelion had incredibly strong characterisation and this was the most sustaining, captivating aspect of the show. Ergo Proxy, conversely, has always been somewhat tepid in that category. It never truly moved beyond a clinical, detached approach to characterisation and this ultimately damaged the show when its plot failed to go anywhere. Either way, this hollow, dotdotdot feeling after the finale of Ergo Proxy could be similar to how people felt after the end of Evangelion (TV). The biggest difference, I'd imagine, is that people didn't feel the swell of rage at the end of Ergo Proxy as they may have done with Evangelion. And this underlines the success of the latter and the weakness of the former: people just didn't care enough about Ergo Proxy to be angry.

Saying Ergo Proxy is a bleak, characterless show would be totally unfair, however. There were many instances where characters moved me and I felt sympathetic to their plights. The biggest issue is that there was a distinct lack of progression in its characters. Granted, Real moved a few steps away from being a callous bitch and Vince grew into an endearing hero figure (sort of). But because the plot felt so stilted and aimless, the characters never had room to truly grow or mature into anything different.

Real is a good example of this. Assuming I've got the story straight, Real Mayer is in fact some form of clone produced by Daedalus (deriving in some fashion from Monad Proxy to lure Ergo Proxy out of hiding, we later find). And Original Real seemingly knows this fact after she encounters the second Real . . . surely it's not unreasonable to think this would completely fuck up her shit? But it doesn't. She merely accepts her role as a tool and drives forward with trying to stay alive. Perhaps this is suggestive of a higher degree of understanding and intelligence on Lil's part - her cynical realism finally allowing for proactive decisions in her life. And perhaps this acceptance of the futility of life, but the desire to keep at it until the end, is her defining characteristic as the archetypal 'everyman' character a protagonist often has to be, and the stasis is not necessarily a bad thing. Ergo Proxy's party trick seems to be flouting every freaking convention of fiction, annoying the viewer initially but later seeming more convincing after a good think on the matter.

Considering the idea of identity in Ergo Proxy after the finale: Romdeau was a creation of Ergo Proxy and all its inhabitants are also his creation (hence why Proxy One calls Real Re-L124C41). So it stands to reason that none of these characters are truly original in a natural sense; merely creations of Ergo in the same way auto-raves are the creation of humanity. In this sense the population of Romdeau are no different from the Cogito infected auto-raves and the parallels between them seem to be important in decrypting the key message of the show. The only absolute truth of existence, using Ergo Proxy's preferred smelly French philosopher Descartes, is being aware of your own thoughts. I think therefore I am ('cogito ergo sum', originally) -- everything else must be doubted (Cartesian doubt). Both humans and infected auto-raves were aware of their own thoughts and ultimately it turns out that both their realities were complete fabrications. The impression I got from Ergo Proxy was that it wanted to empathise the inherent likeness between the two camps and the identical deceptions they fell pray to. This is why it felt so disturbing to see the auto-raves be brutally slaughtered in these final two episodes. Seeing them beg for their lives was genuinely terrifying.

I used to complain about the lack of explanation about the Cogito virus in previous blog entries, but recently it became clear that we've had a practical, developing example of it from the very beginning: Pino. Its inception and nature of infection wasn't important, rather how it changed auto-raves into direct equals of humanity, and everyone's love for Pino speaks enough for how much of a equal she was to other protagonists in the show. It seemed to me that Ergo Proxy wanted to deny the inherent self-righteousness we have as humans and explore the future moral/ethical troubles we may have in the future with uber-intelligent AI. In many ways this is one of the more successful aspects of the show for me.

Anyhow, that's enough theorising for me and Ergo Proxy, for your sake and mine. There's still a wealth of uncertainty around my understanding of the show, but that makes the prospect of the impending Western release all the more appealing. I'm desperate to see what reception will be, and if it will cause a similar, Evangelion-like explosion in message forums and related community bobbins. Perhaps after the Internet sinks its teeth into it, more facets of the show will be come clear.

Technically speaking, I've loved the style of Ergo Proxy. It's had its fair share of shitty animation and awkward expressions, but the over-arching style has been fantastically realised. In previous entries I've discussed with commenters about this and their points have been valid: there's been some pretty bizarre things happening visually in the show, and this was never more obvious with the massive increase in quality from episode twenty-two to episode twenty-three. It's frustrating because how difficult could it be to animate consistent looking facial expressions? Quite apart from the nicer animation in twenty-three, the characters never looked awkward or malformed and surely this could've been maintained without a massive budget surge? I've come to appreciate this way of thinking and, while fairly minor in the grand scheme of things, it is quite disappointing.

Conclusion
So, it's over. One of my most enjoyed shows of 2006 is done. It's rarely been entertaining in the traditional sense, like Honey & Clover or Gunbuster 2 may have been, but I've thoroughly loved the challenges and conundrums it's presented. I think the best way to ultimately appreciate Ergo Proxy is to see it as a series of ponderings happening within a recurring situation - a set of vignettes that contribute to a wider collection of ideas. As a purely conventional piece of storytelling it's full of holes and not particularly satisfying, but as a platform for exploring philosophical ideas it's been rather successful and often beautiful. It'll sit proudly next to the two Ghost in the Shell: SAC series on my DVD shelf.

Edit: corrected spelling of 'Romdeau'.

Comments

[kikuchiyo]

This is obviously a failed show, nothing shows this more than the fact that this comment is the first to appear on blogsuki since the show ended - months ago.

It was a series that held a lot of promise, but failed to live up to the exceptation.
When Ergo Proxy was announced, I saw 30+ year old anime veterans jumping with excitement, saying things like "Finally, after years of worthless shounen fighting crap and mahou shoujo stuff, a series worth watching has come forth". Yet, they cooled down when they saw that after the first few episodes the production values went downhill, and the plot deteriorated into a sort of proxy-of-the-week thing.

Yes, it had a lot of thought to it, and some episodes were very good, moving even. But without the plot, without the characterisation, all the pretentious ZOMG DEEP philosophical stuff just gets lost on viewers, who have nothing to hold onto, figuratively speaking. I felt that I was watching a different series every episode, there was so little consistency in the direction and dramaturgy, as if the subsequent plot turns were decided by a random number generator.

In fact, there has been a series recently which started out just as promising, and failed even more completely: I'm talking about Speed Grapher. If that show was an absolute train wreck, then Ergo Proxy was a Jumbo Jet, with 3 out of 4 engines and most of the instruments down, flying blindly over a blanket of clouds, not knowing where is the island it can land on, nor if there is an island at all. By the time they ran out of fuel and the series crashed, nobody was interested in the whole thing anymore.

That's my final evaluation of Ergo Proxy: It's a pity. A promising, original series gone wasted.

[Hige]

kikuchiyo: I'd like to draw attention to the fact that, while the show ended months ago in Japan, the fansubs took decidedly longer to come out. Couple that with my own personal delays and you have an explanation for the lengthy wait. It's not fair to equate a delay in blogging to a failing in the anime. I would've written this the day after episode 23 got fansubbed, assuming I had the time.

There's no denying Ergo Proxy has the strong sense of 'failed potential' about it, but ultimately people need to ask what the director and writers actually wanted to do with the show, rather than what anime fans expected/wanted them to do.

[ninjacrat]

Ergo Proxy was a towering success, a show that wildly exceeded any initial expectations and delivered the goods every week.

You see how I just said the opposite of everything the guy above said? I'm not being difficult, I absolutely mean it.

I was _this close_ to stopping watching EP after the first two episodes. It was SO BORING. It was an absolutely by-the-book cyberpunk clone ('hardass police woman versus conspiracy robots') without a surprising bone in its body. Then Vincent jumped off the dome, and shit got _interesting_.

I loved the way it spun together the self-contained episodes and the overarching plot.

I loved the way it changed up its mood and style every episode.

I loved the ridiculous number of overt, obscure and stupidly-obscure references to the past 80 years of SF literature.

I loved the fact the a show that started off with grim-faced cyber-police pointing guns at things would spin off into an entire episode paying homage to Walt Disney, of all the hilariously ridiculous things.

I was horrified at the ruthlessness with which they would kill of important characters once they were through with them. (But, y'know, the good kind of horrified.)

I loved the opening credits.

I loved the way it gave away Ergo Proy's identity in the opening credits and no one noticed for like three or four episodes.

I loved the silly mindgames it played with its audience (how many people guessed Proxy One's role and identity before it was spelled out?)

Shit, I can see why a person wouldn't enjoy it. Sometimes I thought it must have had a target audience of like three guys, and one of those three guys was its director. :P I can't imagine how it got funded. But it was, on its own terms (the only terms it ever cared for), a goddamned triumph.

[Bluestreak2]

I have to say that I enjoyed Ergo Proxy, it's the fist show to finally gave me the same wonderfull feelings that Lain did oh so many years ago.

The only complaint I have would be the last 2 episodes. All of a sudden BAM we're back in the dome for the crazy ass ending. But the last like 7 episodes before that featured entire episodes of doing nothing. I think they could have done better, lots better.

But again, I really enjoyed this show.

[Hige]

ninjacat: Certainly, on nearly all accounts (bar the opening theme - enjoyed the animation, but the song is horrendous D;). But I find it easy to accept why many people didn't enjoy Ergo Proxy's style. It definitely didn't cater for the lowest common denominator, and that's probably why we both enjoyed it so much. I guess we'll have to settle for a knowing sneer and write everyone off as philistines.

Bluestreak2: I'd agree that the build up for the final two episodes was pretty weak, but I wasn't surprised with the Romdeau setting. EP had many occasions where time skipped a whole buggerload between episodes and the cast ended up in locales seemingly miles away from where they were previously. I expected things to come full circle for the conclusion.

As for Lain, I felt much more invested in EP than I ever did with Lain. I love both shows, but Lain was obtuse to the extreme and this made it hard to like in a clear, positive sense. Plus, for all its good points, Lain is seriously over-rated. I came to see it based on the constant praise it got and came away thinking people were full of shit. Hype is such a destructive thing... hopefully EP won't have the same albatross.

[Michael]

I'd have to agree with Kikuchiyo. Ergo Proxy is, to me, a failure. I saw a lot of promise in the first few episodes - a little too cyberpunk, sure, but still it had great production values, and didn't waste words. The moment Ergo Proxy dropped from the ceiling next to Real, and she collapsed on the ground in stark terror, I was hooked. It looked like the show was going to take its characters on a roller-coaster ride, really develop them, maybe show a bit of what lay behind Real's "tough-girl" exterior, and give us a hard-edged plot. Then it hit a snag. And another. Before I knew it, all of my excitement had evaporated into a "so, what?" kind of feeling.

I'm talking about the endless self-applauding mentality that pervades the show, the numerous obscure philosophical references (GitS 2: Innocence came to mind more than once) with little to no foundation for their inclusion, and the complete absence of the amazing animation that graced the show at the beginning.

And the ending? For a show that started with a bang, it sure does end with quite a whimper. The "real" Real (Monad) pops up, without any real purpose other than to die (not a very emotional moment), and does just that. Daedelus' death was just as lifeless. I didn't even care - and his death had very little meaning (much like his life). Don't even get me started on the last line of the show ("For I am Ergo Proxy, the emissary of death!" - how much more cliche can you get?).

To me, Ergo Proxy is the perfect example of how to start a show, and an even more perfect example of what goes wrong when you sacrifice character and plot for the sake of theme. Blade Runner, GitS (first movie and the TV series), and others tackled similar issues with greater finesse and managed to make you care about the people involved. That's the mark of a true masterpiece (just as the outrage at the end of the TV series run of Evangelion shows how much the viewers connected with the series - and speaks to that show's longevity). Ergo Proxy has a solid theme, and does well at making it known...but it's no masterpiece. Not by a long shot. And for the record, I didn't like it after Episode 4.

[aurabolt]

Egh, sorry just didn't have any other way of contacting you, but can you fix my blog name to トワイライト?

Just noticed the typo that was only on the front page. My profile always had the correct one though;;

[Hige]

Michael: I felt the same way after I realised it wasn't going to revert back to the initial promise of the first few episodes, but I came to appreciate the change once Lil, Vince and Pino were reunited. It was a tough sell and I completely understand why people feel the same way as you do, but strangely I never wanted to completely wash my hands of it. I built my awareness of enjoyment on this fact alone.

I never felt the same degree of anger over EP's general level of conceit, either -- certainly not to the same point as GitS 2 (which was simply unwatchable on every account apart from its visuals). I usually had a slight inkling with what EP often attempted to do, but may have not succeeded in, and that was enough for me to find enjoyment from it. Like I said in the conclusion, EP was more a platform/instigator of thought, and I respected it for that even if was rather crude and heavy-handed.

It was a weak ending. Daedalus death, especially, felt completely muted and uneventful. Even when, objectively, you could see that the set up and consequential end was meant to be dramatic it just felt emotionless. I'd agree that 80% of the final episodes felt exactly this way; perhaps even 80% of the entire series. Seemingly, EP was not about the emotional hit you might've got from Evangelion, and about half way in I accepted this and let the other subjects of interest take precedence.

I hope my entry didn't suggest I thought Ergo Proxy was a masterpiece. Not by a long shot, indeed. I was simply trying to articulate why I enjoyed it (in the face of all the criticism I was well-aware of) and I stand by my positive remarks, as well as the negative ones. There's always lots left unsaid in these kind of entries and I certainly had loads more to consider when I noticed the 1000 word count. All in all, bar writing a 3000 essay on the damn thing, I did my best to describe the ups and downs I had with the show, and the ultimately positive opinion I had at the end.

aurabolt: Corrected! :3

[Michael]

Fair enough. After reading your comment and re-reading the post, I can agree more with what you're trying to do. I'm glad that you at least did a post on the last episodes of EP - even if I didn't enjoy the show, it's one of the few that I completed from the past year, and finally getting to hear someone else's opinion apart from my own was refreshing.

[DS]

I dont understand how people didnt feel sorry for characters such as Raul(who's wife and child die right out from the begining of the show)... If his death wasnt sad, I just dont know what kind of sappy over emphasised tv drama it would take to make people emotional.

I think what people are overlooking when they consider the lack of emotion from the characters, is that they were institutionalised to be emotionless... When Raul's wife dies in eps 2, the only sign of it affecting him, was that he paused for a moment before continuing his duty. And it was shown by his autorave that it was expected for him to do so.

I think the bleak emotionless characteristics of some deaths(dedalus but not Raul, who ultimately escaped this) were intended to further show; as the autoraves in the form of pino(and eventually iggy) became more emotional(or human), the humans(within the dome), who were institutionalised to only be concerned with their function in society(being a good citizen) became less human.

It was kind of obvious when Raul began to show signs of what we know to be humanity, he was considered to become deviant by the council.

[Michael (another one)]

It sucked. I dropped it at 20. I *may* pick it up sooner or later, but come on ... it was a failure, IMO. :V

[sean]

Finally finished watching the series, and have been trawling through message boards in order to soak up enough other people's opinions that I can pretend I have one of my own..

As for the show.. I carried on watching and somehow enjoyed it, despite myself. It never seemed to head in any direction that I wanted it to, which frustrated me, but kept me watching, too. Episode 15 made me a bit mad, and then 16 made me love it again.

The final episode made me want to watch the series over again, to see if I am actually that stupid to have picked up so few of the 'clues' along the way.

I suppose I'm a bit ambivalent at the moment; not knowing what to think of a series that had such a skewed narrative for 22 episodes that I really wasn't sure how much I liked it, but then finally deciding after the final "OOOOOOOOHhhhhhhhhhhhh!" episode that I probably do want more.

..just wanted to say thanks for providing such an enjoyable and insightful bit of reading.

[Shantor]

So.. My opinion ey?
I loved most of the show. Every episode had me wanting more, wanting to find out what happens next and how many questions were going to be answered. I cant deny that i was confused for most of the show, but even though i never went "ohhh" during the beginning, middle or near end of the anime, things still ended up making sence in my mind after i finished watching.
I do have to say though, that i was expecting a much more emotional ending. With series like that, so intence and leading you on so far, i expected at least one big emotional scene that would bring me to tears.. but that never happened.
The only thing that came to mind at after the last episode was just a "huh..."
The last episode wassnt amazing, didnt make me cry, and barley made me smile.. it wassnt a very well made ending (in my opinion) though it did answer most of my questions.
So, lets just put it this way, the show itself is amazing, the story is just one continued mind fuck, and the art work is beautiful.
I guess i shouldnt have expected all that much from the ending.
Witch Hunter Robin left me feeling rather similar, kind of a lost feeling, not sure whether the ending fit the anime or not. But i feel the same about both animes'.. amazing.

[caern]

I really liked it at first. I got very excited when they first moved out of the dome. Then I got kind of disappointed when we saw two proxies, one after the other. Ultimately, I was just very disappointed with the story.

It's okay to skip large periods of time in between episodes, particularly if there's mostly boring travel, and by skipping a few details we can start off an episode in a more dramatic way. But that clearly did not apply to the last couple of episodes, and some episodes where so out-of-the-blue that they just didn't make any sense within the larger story (tv-show episode, I'm looking at you!).

Anyway, overall I was left with a number of questions, plot-wise, and I was wondering if anybody knew the answers, or could point me to some 'Ergo-proxy explained' post somewhere.

(Some spoilers in Q&A below.)

1. What the hell were the proxies anyway?

It was clear they each had a dome, they were very powerful, each had some sort of ability, and a lot of them had powers of illusion of some sort. Also, for some bizarre reason, they had to fight each other if they met face to face (which makes proxy romances kind of mysterious), but not immediately (I'm thinking Luminous proxy). Also, they can't stand natural light, except for EP maybe?

In the tv-show episode, it mentions the Proxy Project (PP), as one of two competing theories to save mankind. The other, the one with the ship leaving Earth, somehow depended on the Cogito virus. So... what does that mean exactly? Clearly nobody really knows, perhaps the official material in the US version will give some further hints, but any ideas? Did mankind create proxies, so that they could recreate humans in their domes, waiting until the Earth recovered and they could repopulate it? Clearly the Smiles proxy thought that the world was doomed and would end, but he might have been deranged.

2. What's up with Proxy One?

So he's the same as EP... but different. And he's won the tv-show once. Hence that proxy should be dead already. Or does that simply mean that it was prophecy? Or does it simply mean that entire episode was in EP's head? (Probably the latter.)

If they are two different bodies, and he's not just some embodiment of EP's subconscious, why not just power the dome through him? And why exactly kill EP?

If he is an embodiment of EP's subconscious, and EP just wanted to kill himself, then how did they exactly fight? And why?

3. What exactly happened at the end?

The sky suddenly opens up, the space-faring (original presumably) humans seem to be back, the age of the proxies is supposedly over (they can't stand natural sunlight, right?), and EP leaves us with an ubercliche of now the real fight begins.

Why?

I mean, from the top, how is the Earth suddenly supposed to have started recovering, why should Vincent be OK with the sunlight, and why would he ever fight the humans that are coming back?

Anyway. So yeah, I guess the plot really didn't make sense to me. I'll agree it was an interesting device through which to explore several philosophical issues.

But ultimately it really amazes me just how half-baked the mythology and plotline of so many of these anime seems to be.

I'd understand plot - it can be hard to get the plot right given time constraints, etc.

But the mythology? I mean, unless they have something like a one-page background story for the entire anime, or somewhere along the line just forgot to tell us about any of it, it really seems like they built an entire world out of brainstorming sessions, style considerations, and a few philosophical tidbits for some meat.

Again, ultimately somewhat disappointing.

Anyway. If someone would like to take a shot at answering those questions, or know of a post where someone else did, I would greatly appreciate it.

[Aosar]

Caern, this is my theory on what was going on in Ergo Proxy.

1. What the hell were the proxies anyway?

Since the Anime is rather cyperpunkish, I'd say that the proxies were bioengineered beings of great power, designed to create and maintain the domes. The domes are populated by cloned Humans and Auto-Raves, whom the Proxies have created.

The domes most likely feed on the toxins and pathogens of the Earth and transform them to consumer items. This is why the citizens are encouraged to make waste.

The human clones in the domes are engineered to be dependant on something that is present at the dome. This is alluded to in the episode where Pino wanders into the cave with the weird creatures, whom have a striking resemblance to the artificical wombs found in the domes. This would indicate that the human clones created by the Proxies are not meant to die along with the Proxies to make room for the original humans.

2. What's up with Proxy One?

I think he is the leader of the Proxies and is very if not even THE most important part of the plan to restore earth. While Ergo Proxy is other important part, the death of Proxies. It is likely that the Proxies did not have a compulsion to fight untill the Earth neared restoration.

3. What exactly happened at the end?

At the end the plan of restoring the earth is complete and humans can repopulate it. Now, it is meantioned several times that a Proxy can hide itself inside a human being. Thus we can assume that Vincent was originally just and average cloned human, untill Ergo Proxy hid himself within Vincent, near the end the separate consiousnesses and personalities of Ergo Proxy and Vincent merged. Thus, by utilizing Vincent's body, Ergo Proxy has gained immunity from sunlight.

The mythology is a metaphor for how the Proxies are a mere tool in the process of restoring Earth.

Now considering that the Proxies and the cloned humans were nothing but tools to be used and the discarded by the original humans, we can begin to see what Ergo Proxy/Vincent wants to fight against.

I am unsure where the Auto-Raves fit in, but I think they are merely an useful tool awailable to the cloned humans, as the cloned humans are to Proxies and finally how the Proxies are to original humans.

The Cogito Virus is likely supposed to make the Auto-Raves cabable of humanlike thought, so human consiousness could be placed into an Auto-Rave body, thus giving some humans the means to explore the galaxy untill finding a place where biological humans can be created or transported to.

[Lethe]

Thank you Aosar for finally shedding some light on the subject. Don't get me wrong, the majority of what you said I already suspected, but needed someone else's opinion for it to sound more Real, no pun intended.

Mkay, for my IMO..
Yes, it was nothing other than "unique". I think what most of the critics who try to draw a comparison between Lain and EP are overlooking is the fact that Lain was intended to be unique. Yes it was modern, and you can throw a load of labels at it. But ultimately (and I'm almost certain the creator would agree with me), it was meant to be unique and to get those brain cogs rolling again.

Ultimately it wasn't very entertaining but gripping IMHO. I especially agree with DS in terms of the series' emotional angle. Daedalus molded the humans to be emotionless so it's only fitting to have him die an emotionless death.

The story was very cryptic and that's all that I really liked about it. In a world where we're practically spoon fed it's refreshing to have a story force you to think for yourself and make up your own damn mind.

[Stylianos]

Ok just finished watching the show.

Not going to make any comments about the show just about the plot.It has huge gaps.

I didn't wacth the entire series again.Only episode 15 (the show) and the last one.

FACT 1:

Earth was anihilated from some kind of nuclear destruction.Humanity had to flee thiw world and move to another one BUT with the intention to RETURN one day.

That explains the name of the ship ("Boomerang") and the ships appearing in the finale.The protagonist says so also in his last words. ("mankind is returning after...).

Ok so far.

Mankind destroys earth waits to rebuild then returns.

But what are proxies?

The truth is you don't knoow.At least exactly.We know proxies were made by mankind.Proxies name huumans (the ones who left earth) as "Creators".It is also said in the last word of real "lets meet the creators" and she flies to the ships appearing in the skies-which apparently are carrying the returning humanity.

We also know for certain that Proxies have created the "humans" we see in the entire anime.Yes these humans are the creation of Proxies and NOT the real mankind.Lil,Raul,Daidalus all of them.This is made clear in several occasions.

But what was the purpose of the proxies?

OK here becomes complicated.There are two theories:

A.

The purpuso of Proxies is to restore humanity by creating the whole human race from the beggining.

In episode 15 when it shows the Raul watching,althought a conversation takes place between Raul and his autoreiv, the show the voice of the TV-show programm inthe background keeps talking.And it sais interesting things...

First of all it sais that all the data the creators(meaning the real humans the ones who left earth) stored for the preservation of the origin human race had ecxeeded storage capacity.This was due to "harsh conditions".

So if we say that Proxies were to restore humanity they didn't have all the data.So when they created humans they were somehow "incomplete".Actually the show says that the Proxies managed to create "something" with the Data they had.Althought it sais that these carbon-based life forms they created were identical to the original (the humans) and they could reproduce themselves they were imperfect and they were considered as a failure.

So all the "humans" of the anime (including lil,daidalus etc) are the incomplete creations of Proxies in their attemp to recreate humanity.

It also sais that the Proxies were worshiped as gods by their creations (the humans they made).It also calls the Proxy-made humans Defeateed.

So mankind creates Proxies who in turn attemrt to ceate humans but they fail.

Because they failed Proxies had to put their created humans in cities where the adaptation to the enviroment wasn't necessary(<-This is also said in episode 15).

This also explains the words of Raul in Episode 23 when he sais to tha Statues that "the outside world is starting to recover yet we still can't survive out of it.We are prisoners of Raumdeu." and "Yet I hace come to realize that we are imperfect beings".

This also explains why the Proxies are said to be "the most useless thing after the recover of the humanity-a question of episode 15" and why the end of Proxies was named "the Heartbeat of the beggining.

So if Proxies were to create the human race from the start what was the purpose of the Boomerang ship?

Let's take things from the beggining.So far we know.

A.Human race leaves planet earth so that to return when the worrld will have recovered.

B.Humans leave in Earth 300 creatures named Proxies which will attempt to create the human race again with the data they have left them.

C.This data is incomplete.The Proxy-made humans are imperfect and they are considered to be a failure.They must be put into cities,the Domes,because they can't survive on the outside.

D.The proxy-made humans whorship Proxies as Gods and they are named the deafeated.

And

E.The Project to Save humanity is named "Double-P"

And the key for me

F.In episode 15 there is a Question which sais "What is humanity OTHER plan as indicated by the outbreak of cogito-virus" and the answer is "Boomerang".

You see all the clues are here it's just hard to see them.

For me there where TWO plans to save humanity.1.The Boomerang Ship and 2.The Proxy Project.

This explains why the project to Save humanity is named "DOUBLE-P" and why Boomerang ,the ship,is called humanity's OTHER plan.

All these also explain why proxies die in Sunlight.Since if there was to be sun this would meant that the world has recovered so proxies are no longer necessary.

Don't ask me anything more.That's all I could get form the anime and I believe I've used every possible clue the creators give.At least most of them.

In the end I THINK that Vincent decided to stay with Lil and the others ("the deafeated") and to fight the humans that are returning?

Probably.

It's like having two plans to accomplish sth but the succes of one plan denies the succes of the other.

I mean eather there would be the humans the Proxies made or the humans returning with the Boomerang.

It's like having plan A fihgting plan B.

This explains why Vincents last words were"the fight begins".The proxy that refused to die and decided to fight the humans returning.

That's why Proxy one tells Vincent that "your survival will be the Creators punishmnent".And that's why Real the angel proxy at the end wants Vincent to suicide with her.It sais to him "the others are returning our role is done."

BUt Vincent decided to stay and fight.

Now what was Proxy one why the hell he wanted to die and what was the full meaning of the dialogues in the end between Vincent and Proxy one...

Well I don;t know.

[A...]

This show was great... sorry but i loved the fact that its not another carbon copy of every other anime, artistically and in terms of plot. Some great, wtf just happened moments... I will definitly watch again.

[Kiari]

I have to agree that Ergo Proxy wouldnt appeal to some audiences. It's just that some people need something that goes a little faster, has more action, and spells the whole thing out for them so they dont have to figure it out themselves.

I, infact, thought Ergo Proxy was the WORST piece of shit the first time I saw it, but after watching a few episodes I found myself to be hooked. I love how the show makes you start thinking one way, but spins everything around and goes another. It keeps you on your toes and leaves you wondering "Woa! How did they do that!"

Even their animation is amazing. I havent [in my opinion] seen this great of 'eyecandy' since the ghost in the shell series. I tend to watch anime and look for their every animation flaw. I cant help it, I just do. And it buggs me. Ergo proxy is almost flawless, which means that I can watch it without having to think "Wow. His nose is 3mm too low."

If you're into shows that introduce a lot of latin, has great twists, and also makes you, the audience, think a bit, then Ergo Proxy is great. But if you're just a lard that doesnt want to have to figure everything out and wants everything spelled out infront of you, then Ergo Proxy probibaly isnt for you.

[Zhe]

I live in Australia and I've just finished watching it. I had to download all 23 episodes from AnimeKraze as Ergo Proxy will probably air sometime within the next 10 years down here, if at all, considering the lack of diversity in Aussie television programs.

Admittedly, I didn't enjoy the series as much as I wanted to or expected to. I haven't been exposed to much anime but I'd have preferred the characters to be explored more. Perhaps Real and Vincent could have extended their relationship beyond the detached love they shared for one another. I feel that the plot could have been approached in a tighter fashion and it felt a bit rushed towards the final episodes.

Having said all that, there's so much I love about Ergo Proxy. Pino undoubtedly entertained me throughout the series. The entire presentation of the show is fantastic and polished. The art, direction and ambience is terrific and I really felt the atmosphere of the post-apocalyptic world.

I don't usually do this sort of thing so this post and the compulsion I felt to write it should be indicative enough of how worthy Ergo Proxy is.

I have to add, very disappointed with the characters storyline, not so much the progression because I'm sure the writers decided to give a sense of detachment as a prominent theme but it just would have been satisfying to see Real and Vincent get it on! Haha!

[Idle Moment]

I didn't really understand what role Angel Proxy played. I read on this blog that Real was created by Daedelus to lure Ergo Proxy out, so how did Daedelus get the DNA from Angel Proxy to clone a 2nd Real? and why did Daedelus need Angel Proxy to lure Ergo Proxy out...or was it cuz...Ergo Proxy/ Vincent Law liked Angel proxy? or is it that Vincent Law liked Real, and Ergo proxy liked Angel proxy? hah i'm confused.

[anonymous]

Why the hell were there two ergo proxy's fighting at the end? Was one real, illusory, a different thing, etc.? And what the hell was up with the angel being monad? Wasn't monad the stitched up black proxy that died, and didn't ergo proxy lean over monad's body and call it by a different name, albeit the last name mayar? I enjoyed most of the at-first-confusing plot, but it needed to be balanced out with more action.

[linh]

one thing about the show which I like best is the "psychological treatment" Lil got. Compare to Eva's first ending, it's much more clearer and interesting to watch, but it didn't draw any solution while Eva drew a solution in the end - only you can help yourself.
And thanks for the thing about Lil being a clone as well. It makes a lot of sense, because the genius guy (can't remember names, watched it a while ago) was watching videos of Lil when she was small. He looks like he's feeling nostaligia, meaning he must remember those things happening... and him being not much different in age with Lil, it wouldn't make much sense if he grew up together with Lil. The act of watching videos like that was what parents tend to do I suppose...

[cempo]

Urmm i don't know about you guys, but i felt this story line have an infinite discription. About being incomplete and helpless god who try to forget everything and the new dawn of world. It resembles more on the god who feel the human pain and reborn of broken world. I mean a story like jesus and noah ark. I have many question to ask like who is the first proxy that die?? It is monad??? Then why monad comes back in form of Real clone??? What is the entire plan of the proxy at the first place??? To destroy humanity?? The proxy or the creator that want to destroy humanity??? Hahaha still i am not very inteliggence to grab the part of the anime but i think there are a very good message about this and about life. Even so i think they try to say something about the theory in god existence. Human still merely a human but they play god by creating. Maybe that is how we are created?? hahaha so i hope we can discuss about the philosophy of this story in the future rather then discuss about their stotyline and their quality of pitcure.

[music]

very interesting.
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